Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Pdf Reader Software For Pc Free Download
Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:36 pm by daphyel

» Envy Free Fair Division Pdf
Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:26 am by daphyel

» the triple "F"...foundation fall fling
Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:32 pm by dahig

» Buffalo Trace Open
Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:01 am by Adam

» 5th Annual Seviren Lang Memorial
Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:03 pm by Adam

» 2014 Kentucky State Disc Golf Championships
Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:33 am by Hyzer'n_Howie

» 2014 Holler In the Hills
Tue May 20, 2014 9:00 am by Hyzer'n_Howie

» Ace Eagle Club Meeting. Every Second Wednesday of the month
Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:43 pm by AceEagle1

» Camp Reveal Work Days
Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:48 am by AceEagle1

Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search

What would you do to Mesker?

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  TommyG35132 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:51 am

I agree with Charlie that we should discuss the sudden turn of events, as I was also under the impression that alt pins were already approved by the board. Nobody had any objections to the approval of alt pins at the last meeting.

Also, I attended a Warrick County Parks meeting with several other club members to speak and answer questions in favor of getting the Scales Lake course approved. I really think having a number of club members in attendance at that meeting to show support for a new course is what made the board grant approval that day (even though we eventually got shut down). So, I am asking if there is any way that several of us can meet with the parks foundation to try and persuade them to help fund the State Hospital. We have so many people that are willing to offer their time to get this done and I think we need to figure out how to utilize that to ensure this course happens as quickly as possible.

I motion to have a meeting soon.
avatar
TommyG35132
Ace Eagle

Posts : 165
Join date : 2008-03-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  MKern41598 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:25 pm

I agree i see both sides and untill the other week what Matt Watson said i was all for alt pins but i would rather keep mesker the way it is and just get a new course. However i will be up for a vote and if the alt pins win i will go with that because that is what the club wants. Before i was like sweet a new set up at mesker would be sweet something different from the old course. But no i don't want that because i haven't gotten the best of mesker untill i master the course i will never feel like i have beatin it. You can learn so many things from the course the way it is i know i have. Anyway enough about what i think lets settle this with a vote and get it over with to much fighting between the club. Once the vote is set that is it....its over we will either be for or against the new pin locations.
avatar
MKern41598
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 235
Join date : 2009-10-09
Age : 30
Location : Evansville Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Great discussions

Post  parbuster54 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:47 pm

Matt mentioned fighting over this subject. I don't see it that way. I think it has been great that people care enough to want to be involved and share their thoughts on this forum. A lot of times there is no right or wrong, just different opinions. Charlies post stuck a chord with me. I was thinking along the same lines. I am down with a meeting to review, discuss, vote, whatever it takes to get more people involved with disc golf and make it grow. Great discussions guys.

parbuster54
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 312
Join date : 2008-03-27

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  MKern41598 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:28 pm

Ok my bad fighting not the right words i'm just tired of all this back and forth talk lets just vote and get it over with. Im just sayin!!!
avatar
MKern41598
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 235
Join date : 2009-10-09
Age : 30
Location : Evansville Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

All area disc golfers

Post  Mwatson53 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:17 pm

I don't want to be the guy who stirs stuff up. And I'm not the voice for all players who aren't members.But most of my time on the course is spent with people who aren't members.I am not speaking for all of them. But if the club votes for this how can me and my 25+ friends who play casually put in our votes?And lets not forget the 100+ other players around the area who don't play everyday and aren't members, how do they vote?So one third of the people who use Mesker Park decides its fate.I can't wait to see the new courses!And I'm going to try to do another tournament at my house.AEDGC is doing a great job moving disc golf foward in Evansville.Let's not take a step backward.

Mwatson53
Duffer

Posts : 7
Join date : 2011-01-01
Age : 31
Location : Evansville

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  JobWilson82 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:28 pm

Mwatson53 wrote:But if the club votes for this how can me and my 25+ friends who play casually put in our votes?And lets not forget the 100+ other players around the area who don't play everyday and aren't members, how do they vote?

Become a member. It's only $15. If you and you're 25 friends would become members, then we would have $375 more revenue coming into the club. This $375 would certainly go a long way in speeding up the funding process for installing a new course, thus ending this debate about installing alternate baskets. It's not so much that people want alternate baskets, it's more that people want something new and something different.

_________________
This is what friends are for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp5CKMnSDTU
avatar
JobWilson82
Club Treasurer
Club Treasurer

Posts : 716
Join date : 2009-06-11
Age : 35
Location : Henderson, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Wrian Bilson on Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:08 am

Okay guys we have heard both sides of the argument and I believe all points have been stated. We are all in agreement that we want a vote. A meeting is going to be scheduled for right after the Ice Bowl. We will get the date and time posted up.
-See everyone at the Ice Bowl January 30th!
avatar
Wrian Bilson
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 427
Join date : 2009-05-28
Age : 25
Location : Da Front porch.

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Fest on Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:22 am

Again, it's real simple guys #1 goal build more courses & build a bigger club, best way to do this is by putting another course in the ground. The Foundation funding a new course has never been a guarantee, only our first option, if they can't fund it the club may have to help out. So why would we spend our money on alt. pins before we knew for sure how the new course would be funded, it just doesn't make sense. Not really sure what everyone wants to vote about, when we always talk about new courses being the most important thing, but lets vote!!! Next club meeting will be held Tuesday February 15 at North park library, time & more info will be posted under club events.
avatar
Fest
Admin

Posts : 184
Join date : 2008-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  JobWilson82 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:43 am

Fest wrote:Again, it's real simple guys #1 goal build more courses & build a bigger club, best way to do this is by putting another course in the ground. The Foundation funding a new course has never been a guarantee, only our first option, if they can't fund it the club may have to help out. So why would we spend our money on alt. pins before we knew for sure how the new course would be funded, it just doesn't make sense. Not really sure what everyone wants to vote about, when we always talk about new courses being the most important thing, but lets vote!!! Next club meeting will be held Tuesday February 15 at North park library, time & more info will be posted under club events.

Nick, I think everyone's big issue is that they feel out of the loop. Some of us seem to have gotten the impression at the last meeting that the State Hospital course WAS pretty much a guarantee and this is why we moved the EVO11 to June. Also, members think club decisions are being made without the club being involved in the decision making process.

I am motioning for a monthly meeting, even if we don't have anything to talk about. We can discuss this at the next meeting.

_________________
This is what friends are for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp5CKMnSDTU
avatar
JobWilson82
Club Treasurer
Club Treasurer

Posts : 716
Join date : 2009-06-11
Age : 35
Location : Henderson, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  SMontgomery on Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:13 pm

I have to agree with Job. As one of the new guys I already have a hard time keeping things straight with the club (though I am not officially a member till tags). I like the idea of a monthly meeting and second Jobs proposal. It would give something concrete for new members or those who are interested in the club and are looking for something better than hoping to run into members at the course. I know I didnt know about the club until the pumpkin and it would have been nice for flyer with a set monthly meeting posted explaining a little bit.
avatar
SMontgomery
Ace Eagle

Posts : 72
Join date : 2010-10-31
Age : 33
Location : Nashville, TN

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  MKern41598 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:25 pm

I think people just get to worked up and need to slow down things take time give Nick a break i mean he did get mesker in the ground and he is working on the state hospital ground...... don't you think he wants a new course just as bad as anyone else!!!! Nick i got your back i know its not as easy as everyone thinks....keep doing what you do!
avatar
MKern41598
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 235
Join date : 2009-10-09
Age : 30
Location : Evansville Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Fest on Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:21 pm

Thanks Matt, & I agree just slow down! Job, I'm sorry you feel out of the loop, but I have told you everything there is to know about the new course. I have constantly updated on this message board any meeting I have had with park, Boy Scout, baseball, soccer, & foundation officials & the results of those meeting. EVERYTHING the club has going on is posted on this message board, all new information I get about any of these topics is posted on this message board. I have never used guarantee, because nothing is guaranteed until it is in the ground. I have always made myself available, If you or anyone has any questions about anything going on in the club feel free to call, text, email, pm, or talk to me on the course.

Nick Fest
Ace Eagle Disc Golf - President
812-459-7477
nicholasfest@aol.com
avatar
Fest
Admin

Posts : 184
Join date : 2008-03-19

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Charlie Aubrey on Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:03 pm

If the parks department could still fund the new course, why are we putting a definite yes or no to the alt pins? why not a, "let's wait and see?"

Nick i got your back i know its not as easy as everyone thinks....keep doing what you do!

Who said putting a course in the ground was easy? Just because people want their opinions heard doesn't mean they don't appreciate what Nick has done and continues to do for the club. I'm not trying to jump down anyone's throat, I just really want those alternate pins.haha
avatar
Charlie Aubrey
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 339
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 25
Location : Evansville, IN

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  AceEagle1 on Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Honestly guys,

Where would you put the extra pins that would make our course better?

1 is perfect

2 has no room to lengthen

3 is perfect

4 perfect

5 where you thinking right or left cause you cant go longer

6 perfect

7 no more room

8 nice shot already

9 got to have an ace run somewhere leave it

10 no where to go

11 same as 10

12 same as 10 11

13 perfect

14 perfect

15 16 17 18 no where else to go that drastically changes the shot or that would lengthen any hole


Guys, Mesker is great. Lets squash this bug and build up the Evansville Open!

avatar
AceEagle1
Club President
Club President

Posts : 361
Join date : 2008-02-14

View user profile http://www.ONETIMEDISCGOLF.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  TommyG35132 on Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:55 am

From the meeting before the Pumpkin Shootout Nick let everyone know that we were approved for alt pins at Mesker and that we are hopeful that a course can be installed by this summer at the State Hospital. Now there is suddenly opposition to the alt pins, but I think everyone is in agreement that we want a course at the State Hospital. Rather than wasting our time voting for/against alt pins at Mesker, why don't we discuss our options for funding the course at the State Hospital. It doesn't appear that we have funding for both so in my opinion we should put alt pins on the back burner as the next possible project which can be voted on at a later date.

We need to join together as a club and get this course in the ground. In order to do that we need money. There are a few different options to get this course funded:

Hole Sponsors - We need to pin down several businesses that could be possible hole sponsors and plan on who and when and how we are going to approach them.

Fund Raisers - My idea is to take disc donations from club members and try to sell them at the disc sale we have been talking about having. I have at least a few discs that I would be willing to donate and proceeds could all go to funding the State Hospital. Fund raiser tourneys are always an option as well. How about Guerilla Golf at the proposed SH layout? (with approval from the parks board, of course)

Club Money - We need to decide how much of our funds can be put towards the new course. At the very least I think we should sponsor a hole.

Parks Foundation - After we have determined the amount of money we can obtain from all other resources above, we should present the remaining funds needed to the Parks Foundation. This should be done with several club members to show our support and to help answer any questions they might have.


avatar
TommyG35132
Ace Eagle

Posts : 165
Join date : 2008-03-21

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  GMcAtee on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:09 pm

Fest wrote:Thanks Matt, & I agree just slow down! Job, I'm sorry you feel out of the loop, but I have told you everything there is to know about the new course. I have constantly updated on this message board any meeting I have had with park, Boy Scout, baseball, soccer, & foundation officials & the results of those meeting. EVERYTHING the club has going on is posted on this message board, all new information I get about any of these topics is posted on this message board. I have never used guarantee, because nothing is guaranteed until it is in the ground. I have always made myself available, If you or anyone has any questions about anything going on in the club feel free to call, text, email, pm, or talk to me on the course.

Nick Fest
Ace Eagle Disc Golf - President
812-459-7477
nicholasfest@aol.com

On top of all these hurdles Nick has to jump thru, Southern Indiana is very anti-change. If you have ever lived in Daviess County, you know what I'm talking about. They don't even like new people moving to town! Bloomington doesn't want I-69. Look how long it has taken to get I-69 built. I remember hearing about it when I was a kid.

I know all my relatives on my mom's side on the westside of Evansville hate change. They are not happy about any new development on the westside. Probably even opposed the course at Mesker Park!

Good luck Nick

Sorry for being negative, but that's just my experience.

GMcAtee
Pro

Posts : 48
Join date : 2009-05-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  GMcAtee on Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:14 pm

Tell gov. officials that a southern Indiana native lives in Mississippi now with 10 disc golf courses within 30 miles of him. Maybe they will realize how behind the times they are!


GMcAtee
Pro

Posts : 48
Join date : 2009-05-25

View user profile

Back to top Go down

well put tommy

Post  john short on Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:04 pm

I also have plenty of disc I would sell an give the proceeds to our club so we can get new courses in the ground.another ideal is we could have a tourney with plastic/disc pay outs an the money go to the club to help our funds/a.e.d.g.c sponsored hole at the new course.plus all I need is some forms from nick an I have 3 or 4 holes sponsors now an can get more.so if the park funds the state hosp. Then we can get scales lake in to.just keep me posted nick I'll do whatever to help even if I have to pay for a hole myself. Razz Twisted Evil Razz Twisted Evil
avatar
john short
Ace Eagle

Posts : 135
Join date : 2008-03-27
Age : 36
Location : evansville in

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  rudibaughs3 on Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:46 pm

AceEagle1 wrote:Honestly guys,

Where would you put the extra pins that would make our course better?...

Guys, Mesker is great. Lets squash this bug and build up the Evansville Open!

Ben, I totally agree that Mesker is great and that our primary concern should be getting a new course in the ground. I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't agree that Mesker is an awesome course. The arguments for alt. pin locations are just that there would be more options for the course for everyday play/tournament play/and to assist with erosion.

1 could be lengthened down the hill into the edge of the woods behind the big tree, would really change the 2nd shot

2 could be lengthened and put into the woods on the right making it a nice little anny shot

3 could also be lengthened a bit and put straight down the hill to really punish the short drives that catch a tree

4 move the basket just behind or left of the tree that sits to the left of the pin currently. makes tempting the hyzer through the trees instead of the current shot

5 actually, I like the idea of putting this to the right and behind the tree, theres enough room for a green back there and makes the 2 a bit tougher

6 longer and into the woods

7 tucked just a bit around the bend, although I don't think it really needs one.

8 longer and deeper into the woods...make it a legitimate par 4...or up on the flat that currently sits above the basket...or down across the creek...really the possibilities are endless here.

9 keep it an ace run, but put it 20 feet to the left or forward and right.

10 left in the flat would make more people risk going in the woods or taking the straight route and hitting wood early

11 longer

12 on the hillside to the right and longer.

13 could actually place one up a little longer to really push those with wimp arms like mine or have one a bit shorter down the hillside.

14 shorter and left, so if you get too agressive you could skip ob long...not that ob has ever been a problem here.

15 a tad longer and up the hill a smidge

16 seems pretty unchangable

17 has options, but they arent too inspiring

18 could actually go longer behind the big tree, make the 2 a bit tougher.

I don't necessarily want or like all the spots I mentioned, but I wanted to point out that there are options that, although they may not make the hole 200 ft longer, they would change some golf shots and add variety and options.

Anyway, I'm not trying to push this thing. I just wanted to share so everyone can think about it for the future.
avatar
rudibaughs3
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 214
Join date : 2008-04-01

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  AceEagle1 on Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:07 pm

rudibaughs3 wrote:
AceEagle1 wrote:Honestly guys,

Where would you put the extra pins that would make our course better?...

Guys, Mesker is great. Lets squash this bug and build up the Evansville Open!

Ben, I totally agree that Mesker is great and that our primary concern should be getting a new course in the ground. I don't think anyone in their right mind wouldn't agree that Mesker is an awesome course. The arguments for alt. pin locations are just that there would be more options for the course for everyday play/tournament play/and to assist with erosion.

1 could be lengthened down the hill into the edge of the woods behind the big tree, would really change the 2nd shot (this would make the hole easier)

2 could be lengthened and put into the woods on the right making it a nice little anny shot

3 could also be lengthened a bit and put straight down the hill to really punish the short drives that catch a tree ( agian this pin placement is good, by changing this to down the hill it would actually make the hole easier)

4 move the basket just behind or left of the tree that sits to the left of the pin currently. makes tempting the hyzer through the trees instead of the current shot( really Dave! How many courses have alt pins just feet away from the original)

5 actually, I like the idea of putting this to the right and behind the tree, theres enough room for a green back there and makes the 2 a bit tougher( tough already)

6 longer and into the woods(???) ( it is already an amazing two if you can get it Why change?)

7 tucked just a bit around the bend, although I don't think it really needs one.( your right no where to go)

8 longer and deeper into the woods...make it a legitimate par 4...or up on the flat that currently sits above the basket...or down across the creek...really the possibilities are endless here. ( Whats wrong with where it is? You already have the creek behind you which make a hard upshot or putt)

9 keep it an ace run, but put it 20 feet to the left or forward and right.( 20 feet away from the original pin? I just dont see why we would do that)

10 left in the flat would make more people risk going in the woods or taking the straight route and hitting wood early( by doing this you are taking away the risk reward shot of ob)

11 longer( seriously!)

12 on the hillside to the right and longer. (it is already a tough tw0, keep it where it is PLEASE!

13 could actually place one up a little longer to really push those with wimp arms like mine or have one a bit shorter down the hillside. ( no way that is feasible with a B pad)

14 shorter and left, so if you get too agressive you could skip ob long...not that ob has ever been a problem here.( seriously Dave!)

15 a tad longer and up the hill a smidge ( by doing this you are taking away the risk reward)

16 seems pretty unchangable( like all of them)

17 has options, but they arent too inspiring ( fast green PLEASE dont change)

18 could actually go longer behind the big tree, make the 2 a bit tougher.(HAHAHA it is just fine where it is)

I don't necessarily want or like all the spots I mentioned, but I wanted to point out that there are options that, although they may not make the hole 200 ft longer, they would change some golf shots and add variety and options.

Anyway, I'm not trying to push this thing. I just wanted to share so everyone can think about it for the future.


Why fix something that isnt broken? Please ask yourself this....If we have alt pins will that make more people come play that course. I think not! this is the last post I am personally responding to about the alt pins. Lets vote.

My belief is that, If we change anything about Mesker it should be the hole 7 is now the New hole 5 and 5 should be 6. Why aren't people pushing for that simple move? I do think we should vote on this.
avatar
AceEagle1
Club President
Club President

Posts : 361
Join date : 2008-02-14

View user profile http://www.ONETIMEDISCGOLF.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  JobWilson82 on Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:52 pm

AceEagle1 wrote:
My belief is that, If we change anything about Mesker it should be the hole 7 is now the New hole 5 and 5 should be 6. Why aren't people pushing for that simple move? I do think we should vote on this.

This is the best thing anyone has said in a looooong time.

_________________
This is what friends are for: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xp5CKMnSDTU
avatar
JobWilson82
Club Treasurer
Club Treasurer

Posts : 716
Join date : 2009-06-11
Age : 35
Location : Henderson, KY

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Charlie Aubrey on Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:41 pm

This is the best thing anyone has said in a looooong time.

I agree. Simple fix so that people aren't crossing 5 while drives are being thrown.
avatar
Charlie Aubrey
Addicted to Disc Golf

Posts : 339
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 25
Location : Evansville, IN

View user profile

Back to top Go down

what would you do to mesker

Post  john short on Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:40 pm

you don't have to cross 5 when people are teeing off just take the path behind sixes basket pretty sure that's what it's there for,is it to hard to walk 20 more feet?i love it the way it is lets just get some new courses in the ground.
avatar
john short
Ace Eagle

Posts : 135
Join date : 2008-03-27
Age : 36
Location : evansville in

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  CZuber on Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:27 am

GMcAtee wrote:
Fest wrote:Thanks Matt, & I agree just slow down! Job, I'm sorry you feel out of the loop, but I have told you everything there is to know about the new course. I have constantly updated on this message board any meeting I have had with park, Boy Scout, baseball, soccer, & foundation officials & the results of those meeting. EVERYTHING the club has going on is posted on this message board, all new information I get about any of these topics is posted on this message board. I have never used guarantee, because nothing is guaranteed until it is in the ground. I have always made myself available, If you or anyone has any questions about anything going on in the club feel free to call, text, email, pm, or talk to me on the course.

Nick Fest
Ace Eagle Disc Golf - President
812-459-7477
nicholasfest@aol.com

On top of all these hurdles Nick has to jump thru, Southern Indiana is very anti-change. If you have ever lived in Daviess County, you know what I'm talking about. They don't even like new people moving to town! Bloomington doesn't want I-69. Look how long it has taken to get I-69 built. I remember hearing about it when I was a kid.

I know all my relatives on my mom's side on the westside of Evansville hate change. They are not happy about any new development on the westside. Probably even opposed the course at Mesker Park!

Good luck Nick

Sorry for being negative, but that's just my experience.

The Westside is the fastest growing side of town. I think your wrong. Don't pick a fight with westsiders. we know the deepest part of the creek.
avatar
CZuber
Admin

Posts : 321
Join date : 2008-02-12
Age : 54
Location : Evansville Indiana

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  AceEagle1 on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:39 am

john short wrote:you don't have to cross 5 when people are teeing off just take the path behind sixes basket pretty sure that's what it's there for,is it to hard to walk 20 more feet?i love it the way it is lets just get some new courses in the ground.


How many times have you been putting on hole 4 when someone walks down the hill from hole six. Or how many times have you had to awkwardly stop just because someone is putting. Both situations are awkward and so is walking in front or behind a group teeing off hole 5.

These two situations could both be eliminated just by renumbering three holes. I have no clue how anyone including you Short haha could argue against this simple move.
avatar
AceEagle1
Club President
Club President

Posts : 361
Join date : 2008-02-14

View user profile http://www.ONETIMEDISCGOLF.com

Back to top Go down

Re: What would you do to Mesker?

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 4 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum